Curse

Haggis of Doom · Dec 15, 2010, 02:27 AM // 02:27

^ Maybe put UA on the minion bomber hero? Would be a slot well spent imho... if you are running backline and there are heroes in the party, that is

FoxBat · Dec 15, 2010, 03:32 AM // 03:32

I thought UA did NOT improve the party heals from burst?

Chthon · Dec 15, 2010, 05:07 AM // 05:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

I thought UA did NOT improve the party heals from burst?

It did the last time I tried it. Maybe it was changed in the latest update? Or maybe it's just so good I thought it was doing a huge party heal...

Wenspire · Dec 15, 2010, 07:33 AM // 07:33

UA should not increase the DF AoE bonus. That's one of the first things I tested when they changed Burst.

LifeInfusion · Dec 15, 2010, 01:33 PM // 13:33

UA doesn't increase Burst's AoE heal effect.

Chthon · Dec 16, 2010, 06:37 AM // 06:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wenspire

UA should not increase the DF AoE bonus. That's one of the first things I tested when they changed Burst.

Dang, in that case it's even stronger than I thought.

LifeInfusion · Dec 17, 2010, 03:12 AM // 03:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

Dang, in that case it's even stronger than I thought.

30ish-40ish heal is more than I thought too when my whole party redbarred with one spotheal (WiK pug). A lot of people will run 450ish HP with a superior.

Owik Gall · Dec 17, 2010, 03:59 AM // 03:59

I'm digging this skill now. Been using it for the Hearts of the North quests lately and it works very well with the monk A.I. Most of the time all the monks will heal the single target while leaving the rest hanging. With this skill, everybody gets super healed if one target is healed more than once with Healing Burst. Made a three monk hero team with Healing Burst being the only heal skill and the rest condition/hex removal and energy management. I was pleased at the result.

galactic · Dec 17, 2010, 04:13 AM // 04:13

Would you trade a conditional 200 heal for a nonconditional 160 heal with 40 for party?

Obviously.

Necromas · Dec 17, 2010, 05:20 AM // 05:20

It really seems to shine when you have two burst monks, or when you have an MM and one of the monks takes dwaynas sorrow so the party healing can really add up.

One thing I'm wondering though is how to set up a hero monks build to get them to use healing burst as often as possible, because basically every time it's recharged and they use a weaker heal or a prot when a prot isn't really called for, it's a missed opportunity to bring up the other party members redbars.

Xenomortis · Dec 17, 2010, 01:53 PM // 13:53

Only give them the one heal (Burst).
Only give them a few prots (SoA, PS and Aegis).
Give them a shit-load of energy management.

Other options like a res or an AoE heal like Divine Healing is also a viable option since they can't use them too often.

AndroBubbles · Dec 21, 2010, 08:40 AM // 08:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Only give them the one heal (Burst).
Only give them a few prots (SoA, PS and Aegis).
Give them a shit-load of energy management.

Other options like a res or an AoE heal like Divine Healing is also a viable option since they can't use them too often.

I like this option, though I might give them each one other heal, such as patient on one and kiss on the other. Maybe sig? Give each different prots but have both bring aegis so you can chain it.

Edit: After testing this for a little while, I've concluded that heroes really don't run this skill very well if you want them to have prots. They need some kind of direct energy management, and there's nothing for them to really use with all the attribute splitting if you want anything decent in all three attributes. As somebody said before, they do marvelously when left to just Bursting/cleaning, since you can spec into enough energy management to fuel spells for that.

Owik Gall · Dec 23, 2010, 08:03 AM // 08:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndroBubbles

I like this option, though I might give them each one other heal, such as patient on one and kiss on the other. Maybe sig? Give each different prots but have both bring aegis so you can chain it.

Edit: After testing this for a little while, I've concluded that heroes really don't run this skill very well if you want them to have prots. They need some kind of direct energy management, and there's nothing for them to really use with all the attribute splitting if you want anything decent in all three attributes. As somebody said before, they do marvelously when left to just Bursting/cleaning, since you can spec into enough energy management to fuel spells for that.

Just to add into that, I've tried his idea as well, and it made me feel iffy about it. Sure, the prot was nice against high spikes, but I wasn't sure how good their energy was handled, nvm the Healing Burst spam. In fact, my monks were using the prots more than the heal. Thinking about switching them back to what I had them before. At least then I'm almost guaranteed I won't have any of those annoying anti-melee hexes/conditions on me almost all the time. Maybe I'll keep Protective Spirit for the spikes.

LifeInfusion · Dec 23, 2010, 07:50 PM // 19:50

I ran 12+0=12 Heal, 10+1+1=12 DF, 8+1=9 Prot on a Burst hero with my UA monk to do a dungeon yesterday. It was on a hero without healing runes. I disabled D-kiss (the only other skill besides Healing Burst that heals directly). The other skills were Cure hex, Vigorous Spirit (disabled and microed on melees), SoA (they can't spam it and the AI for this is decent), Res chant (don't really need it). Burst does okay if you prot properly.

Healing Burst
D-Kiss (disabled)
Cure Hex
Vigorous Spirit (disabled)
SoA
Mend ailment or something like that (disabled)
Aegis
Res chant (not necessary)

My bar was: 14DF, 10 Heal, 10 Prot
Gift of health
UA
DH+HD
Dismiss Condition
Seed of Life
Prot Spirit
Deny hexes

If you want to run Burst you need to micro, you don't have the luxury of putting 6 in energy management unless you want to drop all prots.

I also noticed they added a Burst hero on Pvxwiki: http://www.gwpvx.com/Build:Mo/Me_PvE_Healing_Burst_Hero

LifeInfusion · Jan 01, 2011, 03:12 PM // 15:12

What I noticed when I arcane mimicry-ed UA is that Healing Burst with UA makes for Infuse Health kind of numbers (I saw 230-266 heal), more or less with a spot heal on everyone in earshot (that doesn't get boosted). The only way to get that kind of a heal on an HB bar is with mimicry, since nothing non-elite heals for 140 outright except the 10 energy Heal Other/Jamei's Gaze. If you do run Mimicry on an HB bar, then anything less than 93 Heal is not worth using over Healing [email protected]

Vs HB
------

Ethereal Light @14 =95* 1.5=142.5 so you only gain 3HP...
Words of [email protected], HB=150 only if target has a condition
Cure Hex/Patient = flat 114 --> 171
Heal Party=72*1.5=108 --> 2.8 casts of Burst ; max 202 with 17 Heal prayers and 17 DF --> 6 casts of Burst with no cons

The only reason to run HB over Burst+UA is D-Kiss. 85.5+49.5 so with more than 1 enchant/hex it outdoes the Burst bar simply since D-Kiss is multiplied by 1.5. That's 32 loss from the base heal, 18 per hex/enchant.

Heal Party costs an effective 20 energy due to UA. Glyphed it still costs an effective 13.

Vs WoH
--------
WoH is stronger since it boosts to about 310... but that's only if you catch the damage spike below 50% (which is risky). Most of the time you will see about 130-150 (which is what Healing Burst gives without needing a boost).

This is assuming 12+1+1 Heal, 9+1=10 DF, 9+1=10 prot. On Healing burst you'd probably want to drop Heal to 11+1+1 and pump DF to 11+1, dropping prot 8+1=9. You only lose 10HP on Burst in the process and gain 6 from DF so you only lose 4 HP from burst.

The other thing that hurts from this is D-Kiss...since it's 54+32 @13Heal vs 57+33 @14. That's 3HP loss+ 1 per enchant/hex. Not really that much.

If you ran Patient spirit, 108 vs 114 = 6 HP loss, 3 after DF. Cure Hex has the same loss.

Dropping prot also shaves off a second from SoA.

Burst attributes
---------------
So you could:
13 Heal/12 DF/9 Prot
11+4=15 DF UA with hat swap

1 Healing Burst = 224
2 D-Kiss = 86.4+51.2 /Patient Spirit =172.8
3 Cure Hex =172.8
4 Signet of Rejuvenation/Selfless Spirit/SoA/etc.
5 Seed of Life (24/hit with no hat swap)
6 Prot Spirit
7 Aegis/Divine Healing (51 @12 *1.5= 76.5 with no hat swap, [email protected] *1.60 with hat swap for UA only=81.6, 96 with Hat swap on)
8 Arcane Mimicry

Whether DH/HD are worth using in such a way is debatable. 81.6 is less than 3 casts of Healing Burst.

You could drop in Dismiss/Mend ailment/Mend condition here for Prot Spirit if you have a ST rit or imba. If your ST has displacement also, you're better off dropping prot altogether and going something like option 2, since you really can't pump SoA that much without hurting Burst:

Burst attributes (no prot)
------------------------
14 Heal, 13DF (16DF with hat swap=1.63x heal)
1 Healing Burst =244.5
2 D-Kiss = 92.91+53.79
3 Cure Hex = 185.82
4 Signet of Rejuvenation/Selfless Spirit/etc.
5 Seed of Life = 26/hit
6 PvE skill/DH/HD
7 PvE skill/DH/HD , assuming you leave condition removal to someone else. (MB&S with SoS for starters)
8 Arcane Mimicry

Divine Healing = 88 , 103 if you stay in hat swap

Infuse Health could work here, if you feel you need about 490+ HP heals. No idea why you would need that, but Healing Burst would heal you back to full and it heals for ~290 total on targets.

13DF is a breakpoint for the health gain from DF itself (4 instead of 3), 8 is another breakpoint but is an odd attribute rank since you would need 7+1 or 6+2.

You gain ~24 on burst, 10+3 per hex/enchant on d-kiss, ~16 on Patient spirit/cure hex... at the loss of all prot ability.

13DF breakpoint hybrid
-----------------------
10+1+1=12 Heal/12+1=13 DF/8+1=9 Prot
12+4=16 DF UA with hat swap

1 Healing Burst = 212
2 D-Kiss = 83.13+48.9 /Patient Spirit =166.26
3 Cure Hex =166.26
4 Signet of Rejuvenation/Selfless Spirit/SoA/etc.
5 Seed of Life (26/hit with no hat swap)
6 Prot Spirit
7 Aegis/Divine Healing (54 @13 *1.5= 83 with no hat swap, [email protected] *1.63 with hat swap for UA only=88.02, 103 with Hat swap on)
8 Arcane Mimicry

--> even if you add the 3% gain from UA, it doesn't match the 1st hybrid

Summary
---------
Anyone using HB without mimicry and D-Kiss+ Heal Party should be aware they ought to be running UA or Burst. Also Burst on a hero with D-Kiss disabled will outperform a HB hero, simply because the AI sucks with glyph.

Burst is especially good with an Imba, since the Imba will not have the +100 armor, so the +200-250 heal will cover them while you heal everyone in earshot at the same time.

D-Kiss and Heal Party are the only things putting HB on the map since they're the only things that put out over 93HP before HB.

Using Burst addresses a lack of a powerful unconditional selfheal on a UA/HB bar, whose only 5 energy options are Ethereal Light and Patient Spirit (Heal Party just to heal yourself is a waste). Dismiss heals for ~120 total if you use it on a Gift of health prot UA so this makes it look bad.

Update, Jan 2nd.:
Ran OwUT04nBXyLajY6reIH8ioLKIAA (12+1+1 heal, 11+1 DF, 6+1 Prot with 11+1+3 Hat swap for mimicry on UA) in ZM HM.

The major problem I find is that since the other monk ran a fail UA (OwAS0YITZENg+D3N5gvgTfME ... only orison + Patient spirit benefit from UA and orison is terrible) with no party heals, the 80-90 or so party heal was not enough to cover 200 damage fireballs. Heal Party wouldn't work either, 1.6 x 72 is only 115. My DH/HD combo was only enough to stabilize the party to about 60% health. Healing Burst is enough to redbar anyone, since it's about 280HP after DF (240 base+38). I had a couple of large saves of the Imbagon/SoS rit, since SY! isn't up until the initial aggro and SY! doesn't affect the Imbagon.